Ultimate legends

von11 said:

He was amazing to watch...his cards always play well, but to be honest...they should be better.  Joe would have to be in the conversation for greatest of all time (I can't argue with Brady being the GOAT as all them rings do matter)...but Joe was something to watch and truly clutch.

It's difficult for me to properly compare them. Brady got every advantage offered, from rule changes which enabled his longevity, to straight up cheating (deflate gate & illegally recording teams, just a couple he actually got caught for imagine how many others we'll never know about)... straight on through to the simple fact that the majority of Tom's quick passes to undersized slot receivers such as Edelman, would have been hospital balls in Joe's era. Meh.

Maybe it's purely my own head canon, but Joe remains THE premier talent at the most important position in all of sports. 💪

peatrick said:

It's difficult for me to properly compare them. Brady got every advantage offered, from rule changes which enabled his longevity, to straight up cheating (deflate gate & illegally recording teams, just a couple he actually got caught for imagine how many others we'll never know about)... straight on through to the simple fact that the majority of Tom's quick passes to undersized slot receivers such as Edelman, would have been hospital balls in Joe's era. Meh.

Maybe it's purely my own head canon, but Joe remains THE premier talent at the most important position in all of sports. 💪

The funny thing about all of this debate is that guys like Mahomes come into the league with amazing physical measurables. He pitched baseball at a high level, and I think EA missed by a mile not including him in All-Star Athletes. That aside, Mahomes plays football with a pitcher's mentality: He lives and dies by his arm, and his feet give him the time to make his pitch. But as the Eagles showed, cut down the time Mahomes has to throw into a complex secondary, and he gets exposed.

Montana didn't have Mahomes' arm talent or legs. He did have a remarkable chemistry with his receivers, and not merely the capacity to sandlot. He also played the West Coast system to its highest level of complexity and efficacy. He didn't need supremely talented supporting cast members to be the quarterback he was, but he had a couple along the way. Even then, it's not as if Rice was doing all the leg work and Montana was the lucky guy anointed to throw to him. Rather, the relationship between Montana and his receivers was symbiotic: It wasn't just the completion that Montana was going for, but the yards-after part as well. For that, Rice didn't have to take a bunch of big hits in a defenseless position, and so after the catch he could elude, outrun, or even administer physicality on his terms.

A lot of modern quarterbacks can only manage the completion, and even that is asking a lot from them.

But hands-down, if Montana doesn't tear his UCL against the Giants, the 49ers would have three-peated, and they would have gone on to win one or two more rings. Instead, with Bill Walsh gone, George Seifert and San Francisco moved on to Steve Young, and while Young was a solid quarterback in his time, he only won a ring in the year that he had a superteam. Somehow he made the Hall of Fame anyway, paving the way for many middling talents to eventually have a path to that level of glory.

I can remember when Joe Montana or Steve Young was still a thing among 49ers fans, and when Young's career was cut short by concussions, there continued to be those that believed Steve Young would have surpassed Montana as the greatest quarterback of all time. You don't hear Young's name come up that way anymore, a testament that some arguments lack the power to transcend the generation of the moment. As for Brady vs. Montana, it is hard to compare the two directly, but in the end, if they can live with the egos each earned and still speak admiringly about the other, why am I going to get into the middle of that and pick my favorite?

peatrick said:

It's difficult for me to properly compare them. Brady got every advantage offered, from rule changes which enabled his longevity, to straight up cheating (deflate gate & illegally recording teams, just a couple he actually got caught for imagine how many others we'll never know about)... straight on through to the simple fact that the majority of Tom's quick passes to undersized slot receivers such as Edelman, would have been hospital balls in Joe's era. Meh.

Maybe it's purely my own head canon, but Joe remains THE premier talent at the most important position in all of sports. 💪

I hadn't really thought about the rules impacts and those small receivers (more physical back in the day)....I think you are on the money.  No doubt that if character is factored in I would go with Joe hands down...I think you may be on to something and the debate is closer then I first thought.  Great arguments for Joe.