Madden 25 Run Last Less Than A Week (AH Ban :))

STRIKESHOT1 said:

I've been looking into potentially doing this and from the TOS I read you have to wait 60 days from the notice of dispute, and trying to move to arbitration before then voids your right to

@STRIKESHOT1  

Please add that '60 day' TOS link if you end up finding it again.  In contract law, when a company does this (creates conflicting documents) it is generally interpreted against the drafter and in our favor...meaning the 30 day waiting period would likely be deemed sufficient by the court/arbitrator.  To avoid confusion, I would recommend specifically calling out the link I include above/below when filing your arbitration claim to avoid EA's lawyers pointing to some other timeframe.

Section 13 B of the link I included (https://www.ea.com/legal/terms-of-sale) clearly states 30 days.  If EA has a DIFFERENT doc that contradicts that 

Informal Negotiations

You and EA shall first attempt to resolve any Dispute informally for at least 30 days before initiating arbitration. The informal negotiations commence upon receipt of written notice from one person to the other ("Notice of Dispute"). The Notice of Dispute must: (a) include the full name and contact information of the complaining party; (b) describe the nature and basis of the claim or dispute; and (c) set forth the specific relief sought. EA will send its Notice of Dispute to your billing or email address. You will send your Notice of Dispute to: Electronic Arts Inc., 209 Redwood Shores Parkway, Redwood City, CA 94065, ATTENTION: Legal Department.

c59x0x0 said:

@STRIKESHOT1  

Please add that '60 day' TOS link if you end up finding it again.  In contract law, when a company does this (creates conflicting documents) it is generally interpreted against the drafter and in our favor...meaning the 30 day waiting period would likely be deemed sufficient by the court/arbitrator.  To avoid confusion, I would recommend specifically calling out the link I include above/below when filing your arbitration claim to avoid EA's lawyers pointing to some other timeframe.

Section 13 B of the link I included (https://www.ea.com/legal/terms-of-sale) clearly states 30 days.  If EA has a DIFFERENT doc that contradicts that 

Informal Negotiations

You and EA shall first attempt to resolve any Dispute informally for at least 30 days before initiating arbitration. The informal negotiations commence upon receipt of written notice from one person to the other ("Notice of Dispute"). The Notice of Dispute must: (a) include the full name and contact information of the complaining party; (b) describe the nature and basis of the claim or dispute; and (c) set forth the specific relief sought. EA will send its Notice of Dispute to your billing or email address. You will send your Notice of Dispute to: Electronic Arts Inc., 209 Redwood Shores Parkway, Redwood City, CA 94065, ATTENTION: Legal Department.

Section 15 B here, I don't know which one trumps the other

https://www.ea.com/legal/user-agreement

@STRIKESHOT1 

Whoa!  Documents clearly are in conflict.  As I said above, when the drafter (EA) puts out conflicting docs, the courts typically would side with us and allow the shorter of the two timelines (30 days vs. 60 days).   When initiating arbitration with the AAA, I would definitely call out the document I included above that states the 30 day period.  I can definitely see EA's legal team pointing to 60 day document and an arbitrator ruling against you, not knowing there is the existence of a second doc showing 30 days.  Relevant feedback from GPT...

Specificity of the Agreement: The Terms of Sale specifically govern purchases of EA content, while the User Agreement covers a broader range of EA services. If the dispute arises from a purchase, the Terms of Sale might be deemed more directly applicable.

Practical Recommendations

To mitigate potential issues:

• Adhere to the Longer Period: Waiting at least 60 days after providing a Notice of Dispute before initiating arbitration ensures compliance with both agreements.
• Document Communications: Keep records of all correspondence related to the dispute, including the date the Notice of Dispute was sent and any responses received.
• Seek Clarification: If there's uncertainty about which agreement applies, consider reaching out to EA's legal department or customer support for clarification.

c59x0x0 said:

@STRIKESHOT1 

Whoa!  Documents clearly are in conflict.  As I said above, when the drafter (EA) puts out conflicting docs, the courts typically would side with us and allow the shorter of the two timelines (30 days vs. 60 days).   When initiating arbitration with the AAA, I would definitely call out the document I included above that states the 30 day period.  I can definitely see EA's legal team pointing to 60 day document and an arbitrator ruling against you, not knowing there is the existence of a second doc showing 30 days.  Relevant feedback from GPT...

Specificity of the Agreement: The Terms of Sale specifically govern purchases of EA content, while the User Agreement covers a broader range of EA services. If the dispute arises from a purchase, the Terms of Sale might be deemed more directly applicable.

Practical Recommendations

To mitigate potential issues:

• Adhere to the Longer Period: Waiting at least 60 days after providing a Notice of Dispute before initiating arbitration ensures compliance with both agreements.
• Document Communications: Keep records of all correspondence related to the dispute, including the date the Notice of Dispute was sent and any responses received.
• Seek Clarification: If there's uncertainty about which agreement applies, consider reaching out to EA's legal department or customer support for clarification.

You guys are lovely.  However, EA's attorneys probably aren't going to waste any amount of time on this.  If you truly didn't do anything wrong, no ToS infractions, they'll just grant you a "one-time exception" and restore access to your account.  However, by the time that lands, we'll all be ready to pour our time, money and resources into Madden 26.

Good luck, gentlemen.  May the Force be with you.  Just send your letter out, requesting binding arbitration.  The content barely matters.  I doubt very few human beings invest their time in law school and hope to deal with angry video game nerds coming out the other side.  They're going to clear this from their desk as quickly as possible.  However, i am definitely NOT a legal scholar, so take anything I have to say with a grain of salt, however i did get one of my previous bans overturned.  Costs $5 (to send a Certified Letter) and a couple/few months of time.

peatrick said:

You guys are lovely.  However, EA's attorneys probably aren't going to waste any amount of time on this.  If you truly didn't do anything wrong, no ToS infractions, they'll just grant you a "one-time exception" and restore access to your account.  However, by the time that lands, we'll all be ready to pour our time, money and resources into Madden 26.

Good luck, gentlemen.  May the Force be with you.  Just send your letter out, requesting binding arbitration.  The content barely matters.  I doubt very few human beings invest their time in law school and hope to deal with angry video game nerds coming out the other side.  They're going to clear this from their desk as quickly as possible.  However, i am definitely NOT a legal scholar, so take anything I have to say with a grain of salt, however i did get one of my previous bans overturned.  Costs $5 (to send a Certified Letter) and a couple/few months of time.

Agreed.  For me, this whole back-and-forth is really for the benefit of @DrCoin who sent his letter out 6 weeks ago and was denied 1-2 days ago.  If he wants to fight it (he says he wants to) then this is the path he will have to take.

c59x0x0 said:

Agreed.  For me, this whole back-and-forth is really for the benefit of @DrCoin who sent his letter out 6 weeks ago and was denied 1-2 days ago.  If he wants to fight it (he says he wants to) then this is the path he will have to take.

Wow, denied? What reasons were provided, if any? I managed to get one AH ban overturned, then EA basically just ignored any subsequent attempts from the same (M24) game year. Fuckers banned me multiple times, stupid bots.

Hope you're able to overcome that objection.

@peatrick 

https://www.mut.gg/forums/forum/mut-discussion-10/topic/madden-25-run-last-less-than-a-week-ah-ban-56410/?post=450437#450437

After a thorough review, we can confirm that this sanction is correct for distributing coins.

We have reviewed this with our Legal team and have performed all possible investigations on this issue and will not reverse the decision.

c59x0x0 said:

@peatrick 

https://www.mut.gg/forums/forum/mut-discussion-10/topic/madden-25-run-last-less-than-a-week-ah-ban-56410/?post=450437#450437

After a thorough review, we can confirm that this sanction is correct for distributing coins.

We have reviewed this with our Legal team and have performed all possible investigations on this issue and will not reverse the decision.

Wait, did this type response come from EA no-Help or EA Legal? 

Trying to contact EA no-Help is a huge waste of time, they'll magically "investigate" and seemingly never find that EA has done anything wrong. 

Lemme read the thread to try and catch up.

c59x0x0 said:

Agreed.  For me, this whole back-and-forth is really for the benefit of @DrCoin who sent his letter out 6 weeks ago and was denied 1-2 days ago.  If he wants to fight it (he says he wants to) then this is the path he will have to take.

EA replied to me, saying they have looked over it, they responded to my "Notice of Dispute", however I will give them another 24hrs to respond, then fire off the certified letter for Arbitration request.

@peatrick 

The message @DrCoin[252180] received 1-2 days ago from "Esther" denying reinstatement said she was from EAHelp.  

What @DrCoin needs to confirm: 

a) Was the letter he sent 5+ weeks ago addressed to: Electronic Arts Inc., 209 Redwood Shores Parkway, Redwood City, CA 94065, ATTENTION: Legal Department   -AND-

b) Was that same letter sent regular mail or certified.  EA did respond to it showing they received it, but if not sent certified he'll likely have trouble proving when the "clock starts" on the 30/60 day resolution period.

c59x0x0 said:

@peatrick 

The message @DrCoin[252180] received 1-2 days ago from "Esther" denying reinstatement said she was from EAHelp.  

What @DrCoin needs to confirm: 

a) Was the letter he sent 5+ weeks ago addressed to: Electronic Arts Inc., 209 Redwood Shores Parkway, Redwood City, CA 94065, ATTENTION: Legal Department   -AND-

b) Was that same letter sent regular mail or certified.  EA did respond to it showing they received it, but if not sent certified he'll likely have trouble proving when the "clock starts" on the 30/60 day resolution period.

That's the same address i used.  Would love yer personal (or professional) opinion on this form letter i used a while back.  Basically just used some bots and web searches to piece that together.  It was successful on my initial attempt, but ever since that incident, EA Legal has basically ignored anything additional sent to them at the address you posted.  Via Certified Mail, with delivery confirmation.

@peatrick 

Replied via DM

why would you get banned for buying points / spending money?

@c59x0x0 

I don't know how important it would be but the correct timeline is 60 days. Auction house bans/sanctions/wipes etc are related to the user agreement and not terms of sale. The 30 days is probably fine if you bought MUT points because you can argue that product you've purchased has been rendered unusable or whatever, but otherwise the 60 days is the correct timeline.

Edit: Also, EA is NOT required to cover arbitration fees related to the user agreement, only the terms of sale. So attempting to move to arbitration via the user agreement could actually cost you money.