I’ve lost so many playoffs to y sail

I use 43even61 against it: shade inside, and user the MLB to cover both the HB and TE corner. I'll start adjusting once they start blocking the HB and/or TE.

elmango30 said:

My point is that you’re claiming cheating for plays using real concepts

The reason why big plays happen more in madden is because madden players are bad at defense

Because Madden’s interface makes it nearly impossible to be good at defense.

Similarly, Madden makes it hard to be good at good offense. Throwing with anticipation customarily delivers interceptions on throws targeting areas of the field the receiver was never going to run to. So instead we get a game where you can choose one NFL passing concept repeatedly out of dozens and have it customarily deliver strikes until your opponent knows the specific Konami Code to stop it.

This is getting nowhere. You are in the indefensible of arguing two sides of the same coin: You’re intelligent for choosing a play with a single button press that the game by nature makes hard to defend, and you’re intelligent for knowing how to shoehorn an incomplete defensive concept into a favorable condition after seventeen pre-snap inputs, and then making a precise analog stick input at just the right time to make up for what couldn’t be accomplished by the first seventeen inputs if you didn’t quite guess correctly on what your opponent was going to do. Yup, sounds even to me.

phatalerror said:

Are you trying to argue that there's an appropriate defense to use against Y-sail spammers? Let's have it then. It's probably yet another combination of a specific alignment out of a specific personnel group, achieved by calling an entirely different play first, followed by adjusting the pre-snap positions of two to three players, and knowing which defender you'll need to switch stick to to make up for the AI-defeating RPO play that might be called instead. All while having the right abilities in your budget lineup so that your defenders will consistently perform their assignments without getting toasted or pancaked.

It's a lot harder to get the defense to do what it is supposed to do than it is to get the offense to run plays that almost always get players wide open unless the defense makes all the right adjustments as well as users and switch-sticks incredibly well. Everything outlined here is a pervasive and highly effective means of exploiting the defensive AI. It's cheating.

Great write up brother, it really is cheating and I don’t feel like subscribing to some “onlyfans for madden” to get good lmao 

I literally watched a video that did just this multiple player adjustments and switch stick crazy you have to do 20 pre snap adjustment's for one play with 1 adjustment is ridiculous

phatalerror said:

Because Madden’s interface makes it nearly impossible to be good at defense.

Similarly, Madden makes it hard to be good at good offense. Throwing with anticipation customarily delivers interceptions on throws targeting areas of the field the receiver was never going to run to. So instead we get a game where you can choose one NFL passing concept repeatedly out of dozens and have it customarily deliver strikes until your opponent knows the specific Konami Code to stop it.

This is getting nowhere. You are in the indefensible of arguing two sides of the same coin: You’re intelligent for choosing a play with a single button press that the game by nature makes hard to defend, and you’re intelligent for knowing how to shoehorn an incomplete defensive concept into a favorable condition after seventeen pre-snap inputs, and then making a precise analog stick input at just the right time to make up for what couldn’t be accomplished by the first seventeen inputs if you didn’t quite guess correctly on what your opponent was going to do. Yup, sounds even to me.

Yeah bro I think I’m going to take a break and not buy the new one, like this year was wayyy worse from a defensive perspective nothing like madden from the past. This is the most Arcade like interaction isn’t even playing. 

I’ve been destroying people with Faalele and my all vanguard offense, I don’t even pass the ball. No need really… on defense I sit in cover 4 because if I run anything else it gets destroyed. Switch to cover 2 in red zone 

last year I ran a beautiful big nickel over G but didn’t seem like much is good this year sad only thing people run is loop cause they murdered D

LevelsDivide4 said:

Good points made.  When plays are spammed the defense should be auto adjusting as opposed to doing it manually.    I can't believe we are still having this discussion like decades later lol

Literally

Bauer93 said:

Great write up brother, it really is cheating and I don’t feel like subscribing to some “onlyfans for madden” to get good lmao 

I literally watched a video that did just this multiple player adjustments and switch stick crazy you have to do 20 pre snap adjustment's for one play with 1 adjustment is ridiculous

It is. Too many people downplay it as something that should be in the game because it should take effort to beat your opponent on defense. Well, it’s not you beating me on offense. It’s the AI taking my defenders out of the play when I specifically told them, Shade Outside, cut Underneath, and they proceed to do almost nothing I asked them to do.

In the NFL, teams routinely run several practices a week. They drill on what they anticipate the opponent to do. When it comes time for the game, they anticipate what will happen next, and when the coaching is good, the anticipation pays off: The passing windows are tighter, the rush gets home faster, the gaps get plugged and runs get stuffed. Newsflash: There’s no equivalent to practice in MUT. I know that out of my next ten games, eight of my opponents will spam one or two plays of about eight overpowered offensive plays repeatedly. I can hold them off for a few plays, and after I know what they’re doing, I’d like my defenders to actually do what I would have instructed them to do in practice. I should be able to choose Cover 3 Whatever, and select a hot key equivalent scheme adjustment macro I practiced to defeat whatever it is I know is coming. And when I guess right, it shouldn’t end in a two-yard gain for the offense; it should get absolutely stuffed, the way it happens in the NFL when an entire defense anticipates correctly with coordinated precision and dominates of the offense from the snap. THAT would be skill. Not this Simon crap.

Bauer93 said:

Yeah bro I think I’m going to take a break and not buy the new one, like this year was wayyy worse from a defensive perspective nothing like madden from the past. This is the most Arcade like interaction isn’t even playing. 

I’ve been destroying people with Faalele and my all vanguard offense, I don’t even pass the ball. No need really… on defense I sit in cover 4 because if I run anything else it gets destroyed. Switch to cover 2 in red zone 

last year I ran a beautiful big nickel over G but didn’t seem like much is good this year sad only thing people run is loop cause they murdered D

The only time I break off from the Cover-4-now-Cover-2 play-calling sequence is when I feel like I can sniff out the next play, and feel like I could come up with the pick if I execute right.

And after all that my MLB might not stand there flat-footed and dumb watching the ball sail directly above his head at a height of merely eight feet off the ground.

phatalerror said:

The problem isn't calling the wrong plays. The problem is not having a lot of good plays that stop this:

...without getting murdered by this:

Also, make contain work, and give me an option to get at the quarterback rollout-abusing user without having my defenders either ignore the quarterback rush, or conversely, having all flats-assignment defenders rush toward the line, giving up the short- and mid-out depending on where my mid-level defender is roaming mindlessly at the time I need to switch stick.

It's not because Levels Y-Sail is a brilliant play that it works. Defending Levels is a fundamentally simple concept: You need to get defensive bodies to where the receivers are, and in the NFL, the defense will have no trouble with this (unless the defensive coordinator is an idiot). But the AI in Madden isn't good at stopping this, even when I hot-route guys into zones to stop this specifically, all the while trying to finesse everything in five seconds and getting back in position to stop other abusive plays like RPO Alert Bubble.

The problem is fundamentally interface and AI. The supposed "skill" involved in hot routing multiple defenders and having to switch stick between defenders because they won't do what you asked them to do at the outset is obscenely difficult. My opponent just (step one) picks a play and (step two) snaps the ball, and if they have enough experience with the abuse, when it comes time to line up for the next play, they'll layer on route stems and personnel tweaks (this happens rarely, but is nearly impossible to keep up with).

If you're in the top-one-ten-thousandth percentile of gamers who have logged so many hours that this is no problem for you to manage, understand that the rest of us are not going to make a career out of Madden. The defensive interface is rudimentary and limited, handcuffing defensive personnel management and adjustments to defensive assignments. On top of that all, defensive users have to not get crossed up by play-flipping and formation audibles that further complicate all efforts to make up for the unintelligence of the CPU-controlled defenders.

We don't want a game that plays for us. But at some point, CPU-controlled necessarily involves some semblance of intelligence. When I play Madden on defense against guys who abuse certain known problem plays, I feel like I'm trying to be both coach and player while trying to watch which of my defenders will execute like a NCAA freshman.

Big facts it isn’t that the play itself is broken. It’s the game won’t put people in place and the qb rollout is beyond ridiculous glitches out everything you would need to do multiple adjustments on D to even sniff a chance at stopping certain aspects of one play pretty insane stuff. I don’t think there’s a game out there that requires that much adjustments and changes to stop a stock option.

I have no trouble stopping Y-Sail, it's when it's mixed with Cheat Flat X Post well I find it hard to cover. I run Man vs Y Sail, I use zone for Cheat Flat, I don't run Film Study so I have to guess off of situation.

phatalerror said:

Because Madden’s interface makes it nearly impossible to be good at defense.

Similarly, Madden makes it hard to be good at good offense. Throwing with anticipation customarily delivers interceptions on throws targeting areas of the field the receiver was never going to run to. So instead we get a game where you can choose one NFL passing concept repeatedly out of dozens and have it customarily deliver strikes until your opponent knows the specific Konami Code to stop it.

This is getting nowhere. You are in the indefensible of arguing two sides of the same coin: You’re intelligent for choosing a play with a single button press that the game by nature makes hard to defend, and you’re intelligent for knowing how to shoehorn an incomplete defensive concept into a favorable condition after seventeen pre-snap inputs, and then making a precise analog stick input at just the right time to make up for what couldn’t be accomplished by the first seventeen inputs if you didn’t quite guess correctly on what your opponent was going to do. Yup, sounds even to me.

I mean I don’t know what you want from me. You’d rather complain about glitches than even consider that you’re not the player you seem to think you are, and then turn it on me to say that I’m wrong for being able to actually adjust defense. I’m done with this one man

Also - if you’re a dad, happy Father’s Day weekend

phatalerror said:

Read this latest page and you'll get caught up. That's not what I said.

“wins shouldn’t be earned before the ball is snapped. That’s not football, and doesn’t deserve to be called a skill.“

That’s exactly what you said.

LevelsDivide4 said:

Good points made.  When plays are spammed the defense should be auto adjusting as opposed to doing it manually.    I can't believe we are still having this discussion like decades later lol

God forbid you have to do your own problem solving and figure it out how to stop it on your own. You’re right, you’re making the game too easy for your opponent so the computer should increase the difficulty for them but not you.

elmango30 said:

why does y sail work in madden but not real life tho? Do people in real life have the ability to defend two depths at once?

Do you play football irl? Y sail also known as a flood concept is a passing staple in every offense ever.

TheNickSix said:

Do you play football irl? Y sail also known as a flood concept is a passing staple in every offense ever.

This is not being argued in principle, it’s being argued in practice. Madden AI < NFL player intelligence, and as a result, the separation that NFL receivers get on flood concepts is much tighter than what Madden users are tasked with throwing against, assuming that the correct defense is being called in the first place. If I call a defense that in principle is weak against flood concepts because I lose the numbers game, I deserve what I get. That’s a given.

No one that says I’m wrong about this topic is even trying to argue against the point I’m making. In what reality is having to take a stock play and make a dozen pre-snap adjustments quickly every single time I’m trying to counter one specific play a reasonable thing to expect when in real life, if a coach calls Y-sail three times in a row, the defenders already understand what they need to do because they just did it twice?

How about offensive users having to call more than one stock play, and not only having to layer on multiple match-AI-busting hot-route variants? It’s not a skill issue, nor a knowledge issue, when the offensive user is doing things that cause the defensive adjustments to fail to do what they’re supposed to do.