How do you stop the RPO?

elmango30 said:

just so we’re clear, you’re never going to convince me there’s a play you can call in a football game that’s cheating. 

My point here is, from the perspective of a cheeser, I don’t really build around most RPOs. It’s only the ones with good blocking, or numbers against most defenses (think y off trips nasty or bunch te weak for blocking and numbers respectively). I’m not building around y off trips slot bubble. Hence why I think just quitting against all RPOs is somewhat short sighted. I also posted how to stop RPOs, the ones I use included

But everything that yields even marginal wins against RPO's leaves gaping holes against other tactics. Name a team in the NFL that runs RPO's on half of their plays from scrimmage, and that consistently gets first downs and chunk yardage from them. You can't. The reason the plays are called with such high frequency in MUT is because they're far more effective than they should be.

Any kind of exploit is a form of cheating, but since we're not here to debate semantics, just answer the first challenge I presented up above.

Your answer is helpful only if you ignore the entirety of context from which RPO's are effectively run.

Honestly, I’d rather play against a RPO spammer as opposed to a gun bunch merchant. If they know what they are doing out of that formation, it’s literally almost impossible to stop.

phatalerror said:

But everything that yields even marginal wins against RPO's leaves gaping holes against other tactics. Name a team in the NFL that runs RPO's on half of their plays from scrimmage, and that consistently gets first downs and chunk yardage from them. You can't. The reason the plays are called with such high frequency in MUT is because they're far more effective than they should be.

Any kind of exploit is a form of cheating, but since we're not here to debate semantics, just answer the first challenge I presented up above.

Your answer is helpful only if you ignore the entirety of context from which RPO's are effectively run.

name an nfl defensive coordinator who calls stock drop cover 3? If defensive coordinators played like madden players, nfl offenses would look more like madden ones. You want the game to mimic the pros when 99% of madden players know less than a highschool assistant coach. If I taught bill belichick how to man up a bubble, and that it can’t be the read key, hed stop every rpo from his first game of Madden.

If an NFL team faced bad defense against RPOs 50% of downs, like a lot of us do, they’d call them over and over. Exploiting your opponents defense ≠ exploiting the game

elmango30 said:

name an nfl defensive coordinator who calls stock drop cover 3? If defensive coordinators played like madden players, nfl offenses would look more like madden ones. You want the game to mimic the pros when 99% of madden players know less than a highschool assistant coach. If I taught bill belichick how to man up a bubble, and that it can’t be the read key, hed stop every rpo from his first game of Madden.

If an NFL team faced bad defense against RPOs 50% of downs, like a lot of us do, they’d call them over and over. Exploiting your opponents defense ≠ exploiting the game

Why introduce a context I never involved? I don't really care who you've played against, or what they've employed as to scheme. I run all kinds of packages and formations, if for no reason other than that misdirection and disguising coverages is about the only way to stop the MUT 26 cheat offenses, and even then, I have the burden of executing perfectly and hoping the RNG says I caught a pass that hit me in two hands. Your assumption was ignorant, and irrelevant.

phatalerror said:

Why introduce a context I never involved? I don't really care who you've played against, or what they've employed as to scheme. I run all kinds of packages and formations, if for no reason other than that misdirection and disguising coverages is about the only way to stop the MUT 26 cheat offenses, and even then, I have the burden of executing perfectly and hoping the RNG says I caught a pass that hit me in two hands. Your assumption was ignorant, and irrelevant.

what? i wasn't talking about you. you were talking about why madden looks different from the nfl, arguing its because rpos are too good. I argue its because our opponents defenses aren't good enough. if you're not manually adjusting multiple of your zones per play, your defense is simpler than an nfl defense. full stop

elmango30 said:

what? i wasn't talking about you. you were talking about why madden looks different from the nfl, arguing its because rpos are too good. I argue its because our opponents defenses aren't good enough. if you're not manually adjusting multiple of your zones per play, your defense is simpler than an nfl defense. full stop

What you describe is impractical from any standpoint other than that of a competitive gamer who plays MUT for clicks. In the league, the defensive coordinator isn’t calling out a play and specific drop depths for four or five players. The green dot player is going to have enough time to direct one or two players; that’s it. And that’s if the offense isn’t running no-huddle. 

The MUT GUI does not include enough controls to effectively and rapidly respond to the next anticipated cheese. We have to make dumb tweaks to the defensive assignments because the assignments don’t do what they’re supposed to from the get-go.

I’m not asking for defense to play itself, but there should be some serious PRC boosts when an offensive user calls the same two plays during a sequence of ten. I should also be able to flag a handful of specific offensive plays as ‘practiced’, and when I come across these in a game, my defenders should be reacting exceptionally well to these plays. That would be football.

phatalerror said:

What you describe is impractical from any standpoint other than that of a competitive gamer who plays MUT for clicks. In the league, the defensive coordinator isn’t calling out a play and specific drop depths for four or five players. The green dot player is going to have enough time to direct one or two players; that’s it. And that’s if the offense isn’t running no-huddle. 

The MUT GUI does not include enough controls to effectively and rapidly respond to the next anticipated cheese. We have to make dumb tweaks to the defensive assignments because the assignments don’t do what they’re supposed to from the get-go.

I’m not asking for defense to play itself, but there should be some serious PRC boosts when an offensive user calls the same two plays during a sequence of ten. I should also be able to flag a handful of specific offensive plays as ‘practiced’, and when I come across these in a game, my defenders should be reacting exceptionally well to these plays. That would be football.

okay so we just want different things from the game - I don't think any adjustments should be done automatically in any way. I do think it would be better if you could make your own shells and put them in your playbook ahead of time - we get given our playbooks, so we have to have adjustments. 

the problem with having players react automatically over time, is it would act as a crutch for the worse madden players, which makes for a worse video game. 

Side note- I haven't encountered an adjustment that doesn't do what it should, and I'm curious what example you have

elmango30 said:

okay so we just want different things from the game - I don't think any adjustments should be done automatically in any way. I do think it would be better if you could make your own shells and put them in your playbook ahead of time - we get given our playbooks, so we have to have adjustments. 

the problem with having players react automatically over time, is it would act as a crutch for the worse madden players, which makes for a worse video game. 

Side note- I haven't encountered an adjustment that doesn't do what it should, and I'm curious what example you have

As far as what doesn't work according to instructions, pretty much everything across the board is subject to RNG as to its effectiveness. You instruct the entire secondary to cover especially against anything over the top, and what happens? The cornerbacks turn their hips late! Like, dude, I just told you I wanted you to make sure we don't get bombed on, and you're at the 32, and your assignment is getting distance from you from the 36 and counting. Shading lacks degrees, and even the instruction to play to the outside or inside are erratic in their execution. If I were coaching these guys, they'd not make cuts to 53.

While giving defenders bonus PRC for recognizing something they just saw might decrease the skill gap for defensive users, it would sure as heck demand more from the offensive user. This might be more of a zero-sum issue than it appears at the outset.

phatalerror said:

As far as what doesn't work according to instructions, pretty much everything across the board is subject to RNG as to its effectiveness. You instruct the entire secondary to cover especially against anything over the top, and what happens? The cornerbacks turn their hips late! Like, dude, I just told you I wanted you to make sure we don't get bombed on, and you're at the 32, and your assignment is getting distance from you from the 36 and counting. Shading lacks degrees, and even the instruction to play to the outside or inside are erratic in their execution. If I were coaching these guys, they'd not make cuts to 53.

While giving defenders bonus PRC for recognizing something they just saw might decrease the skill gap for defensive users, it would sure as heck demand more from the offensive user. This might be more of a zero-sum issue than it appears at the outset.

Shading over the top is primarily a man adjustment. In zone it just changes flat zones and hook curls. You gotta stem or back off for the effect you want. Lots of adjustments people claim “don’t work” is more them not knowing what they do

and transferring skill gap to the computer is not “zero sum”. If my opponent isnt good enough to stop me, they shouldn’t get a hand out.

elmango30 said:

Shading over the top is primarily a man adjustment. In zone it just changes flat zones and hook curls. You gotta stem or back off for the effect you want. Lots of adjustments people claim “don’t work” is more them not knowing what they do

and transferring skill gap to the computer is not “zero sum”. If my opponent isnt good enough to stop me, they shouldn’t get a hand out.

Not knowing how to speak Madden is not the same as "don't give up plays over the top". It's a simple leverage adjustment, and that's all it should be. Having to predict how deep the pass may go is nonsense; the instruction to the safety is "don't give up plays over the top".

Why shouldn't the offensive user need to expertly know more than two plays? Why shouldn't they be pushed to practice at least ten or twenty? In that respect, a PRC amplifier that penalizes an offensive coach for predictible play would absolutely be zero-sum.

elmango30 said:

If you’re saying you don’t play games with cheesers, okay, but RPOs aren’t inherently that

The point bud, is that Madden is badly coded and cannot deal with RPO's. As has been pointed out countless times in this thread. I'm not sure what skin you have in this game but your replies are either obtuse, off topic or countering an argument that no one has made.

For clarity, here’s the core of the issue:

1. Real-life RPOs rely on split-second reads
In real football, a quarterback reads one specific defender after the snap and decides whether to hand off or throw. That defender is put in a no-win situation.

In Madden, the AI:

• Often commits too early (crashes on the run or drops into coverage)
• Doesn’t truly “read” the play the way a human defender would

2. Animation-based engine limitations
Madden still relies heavily on pre-set animations rather than fully dynamic interactions. That means:

• Linebackers can’t smoothly adjust mid-play
• Defenders get “locked” into run-fit or coverage animations

3. Simplified defensive logic
Defensive AI in Madden is rule-based, not truly adaptive. For RPOs:

• There’s no genuine assignment like “read the mesh point and react”
• Zones don’t  adjust properly to quick slants or bubbles

Result:

• Slants, bubbles, and quick outs off RPOs are overpowered
• Precisely because the game does not let defenders 'learn', Users can spam the same concept repeatedly

In short, Madden struggles with RPOs because they require real-time decision-making and fluid reactions, while the game is built on pre-programmed logic and animations. That mismatch makes RPOs either too strong or defended unrealistically. I completely get that if I mash 300 buttons pre-snap I can align my players to disrupt it, but it's called cheese for a reason. It's an exploit. It takes advantage of bad coding, is as close to cheating as you can get in a video game and I'm just not interested in playing games against guys whose starting mindset is like that. That its a "concept that’s been in the nfl for years" has absolutely nothing to do with it and if you have convinced yourself that you can run this shit because you once saw Lamar Jackson pitch the ball, then I can't help you.

Understand now?

EightyOne said:

The point bud, is that Madden is badly coded and cannot deal with RPO's. As has been pointed out countless times in this thread. I'm not sure what skin you have in this game but your replies are either obtuse, off topic or countering an argument that no one has made.

For clarity, here’s the core of the issue:

1. Real-life RPOs rely on split-second reads
In real football, a quarterback reads one specific defender after the snap and decides whether to hand off or throw. That defender is put in a no-win situation.

In Madden, the AI:

• Often commits too early (crashes on the run or drops into coverage)
• Doesn’t truly “read” the play the way a human defender would

2. Animation-based engine limitations
Madden still relies heavily on pre-set animations rather than fully dynamic interactions. That means:

• Linebackers can’t smoothly adjust mid-play
• Defenders get “locked” into run-fit or coverage animations

3. Simplified defensive logic
Defensive AI in Madden is rule-based, not truly adaptive. For RPOs:

• There’s no genuine assignment like “read the mesh point and react”
• Zones don’t  adjust properly to quick slants or bubbles

Result:

• Slants, bubbles, and quick outs off RPOs are overpowered
• Precisely because the game does not let defenders 'learn', Users can spam the same concept repeatedly

In short, Madden struggles with RPOs because they require real-time decision-making and fluid reactions, while the game is built on pre-programmed logic and animations. That mismatch makes RPOs either too strong or defended unrealistically. I completely get that if I mash 300 buttons pre-snap I can align my players to disrupt it, but it's called cheese for a reason. It's an exploit. It takes advantage of bad coding, is as close to cheating as you can get in a video game and I'm just not interested in playing games against guys whose starting mindset is like that. That its a "concept that’s been in the nfl for years" has absolutely nothing to do with it and if you have convinced yourself that you can run this shit because you once saw Lamar Jackson pitch the ball, then I can't help you.

Understand now?

I mean what you want is for human level reaction time and understanding in your computer players. You are the human controlling them. If you’d rather they have more autonomy, okay, I just think that’s bad for MUT, since mut is the competitive game mode

As for what’s cheating - doing something in the game, with traditional inputs, that is “good”, however you wanna define that, is just playing the game. Just cos it’s hard for you, doesn’t make it cheating

phatalerror said:

Not knowing how to speak Madden is not the same as "don't give up plays over the top". It's a simple leverage adjustment, and that's all it should be. Having to predict how deep the pass may go is nonsense; the instruction to the safety is "don't give up plays over the top".

Why shouldn't the offensive user need to expertly know more than two plays? Why shouldn't they be pushed to practice at least ten or twenty? In that respect, a PRC amplifier that penalizes an offensive coach for predictible play would absolutely be zero-sum.

Right, I’m telling you that that adjustment isnt talking to the safety. It’s just not. 

The punishment for not knowing more plays is my opponent stopping me if I don’t mix it up enough. You are the coach *and* the players. A lot of y’all seem to only want to be the coach, and that’s fine I just think MUT would be worse like that

There is no reason you should be being beat on any 2 plays. There are no 2 plays that someone should be beating you with without changing, and if you know them, please lmk

elmango30 said:

I mean what you want is for human level reaction time and understanding in your computer players. You are the human controlling them. If you’d rather they have more autonomy, okay, I just think that’s bad for MUT, since mut is the competitive game mode

As for what’s cheating - doing something in the game, with traditional inputs, that is “good”, however you wanna define that, is just playing the game. Just cos it’s hard for you, doesn’t make it cheating

No. But I am saying that the games current limitations (and insistence on using an outdated and unsuitable game engine) means that the defense does not react how it should when faced with an RPO. It means that RPO's are OVERPOWERED and that people that run them, particularly as a Get Out of Jail card or repeatedly, are exploiting the gaps that are in the game because of said limitations.

It was a point made earlier that you just glossed over. You talk about how NFL's team use RPO's and that the use of them creates legitimacy in Madden but ignore that no team in the NFL runs RPO's constantly any more than they run ANY play over and over and over. A defence of RPO's in Madden isn't 'well, its a type of play that people run in the NFL' because it misses the point. No one says that RPO's don't exist. 

I will frequently run a WR on a streak or fade up the seam when faced with Cover 3. That's legit. It's a known weakness in Cover 3 - its not that Madden can't run Cover 3 correctly. Madden cannot react to RPO's. It's a known weakness for all the reasons (none of which you addressed) above. Players who know that and run it anyway are EXPLOITING a known problem with the game.