JJ and Too Tall vs TOTY Bosa vs TOTY Myles, Burns

jwasylenko said:

Agree to disagree I guess.

I mean, sure. But don't you think if it did what you said that the Pros would use it in tourney? And that there would be no need for DB blitzes?

But sure, agree to disagree

Martyr1968 said:

I mean, sure. But don't you think if it did what you said that the Pros would use it in tourney? And that there would be no need for DB blitzes?

But sure, agree to disagree

Pros run base aligned dollar blitzes because they are cheese and absurdly overpowered.  I'm not gonna keep going back and forth on this.  It's just frustrating to see somebody spreading easily tested misinformation on here.

Martyr1968 said:

How do you not? :)

Well played lol

jwasylenko said:

Pros run base aligned dollar blitzes because they are cheese and absurdly overpowered.  I'm not gonna keep going back and forth on this.  It's just frustrating to see somebody spreading easily tested misinformation on here.

I think you're both correct in a way. EP/SP reduce a rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move, which does negate part of what unstoppable force does. However, neither EP/SP negate win rate, which is boosted for a player with unstoppable force activated. Based on this, my understanding is a defensive player with unstoppable force activated will still win against a blocker with EP/SP, but it won't be the super win (instant shed) that we see when the defender goes against a blocker without EP/SP. It's still up to the individual Madden Player to determine if the AP cost for an instantly activated unstoppable force is worth it for their team/scheme, but I wouldn't say the ability isn't worth it if you have the AP available. Especially if you have the coin/AP availability to use both Tank and Milk Man with their x-factors.

Marty, you made the point about Pro's running base aligned dollar and not utilizing Tank or Milk Man's x-factor for this. I think that's more about the rush angles from blitzing slot CBs being so difficult to block due to horrible offensive linemen blocking AI. Due to that blitz strategy, Pros feel it isn't as necessary to run Tank or Milk Man's x-factor because they can get just as good, if not better, pressure which allows them to spend AP on knockouts, etc.

• Unstoppable Force (Tank/Milk Man): "Elite pass rushers are a mix of strength, speed, and tenacity. When they enter the zone, this ability increases their win rate and block shed speed against one-on-one pass blocks."
• Edge Protector (passing block): "Blockers with this ability reduce an edge pass rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move."
• Secure Protector (pass & run block): "Blockers with this ability reduce a rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move."

mbacon14 said:

I think you're both correct in a way. EP/SP reduce a rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move, which does negate part of what unstoppable force does. However, neither EP/SP negate win rate, which is boosted for a player with unstoppable force activated. Based on this, my understanding is a defensive player with unstoppable force activated will still win against a blocker with EP/SP, but it won't be the super win (instant shed) that we see when the defender goes against a blocker without EP/SP. It's still up to the individual Madden Player to determine if the AP cost for an instantly activated unstoppable force is worth it for their team/scheme, but I wouldn't say the ability isn't worth it if you have the AP available. Especially if you have the coin/AP availability to use both Tank and Milk Man with their x-factors.

Marty, you made the point about Pro's running base aligned dollar and not utilizing Tank or Milk Man's x-factor for this. I think that's more about the rush angles from blitzing slot CBs being so difficult to block due to horrible offensive linemen blocking AI. Due to that blitz strategy, Pros feel it isn't as necessary to run Tank or Milk Man's x-factor because they can get just as good, if not better, pressure which allows them to spend AP on knockouts, etc.

• Unstoppable Force (Tank/Milk Man): "Elite pass rushers are a mix of strength, speed, and tenacity. When they enter the zone, this ability increases their win rate and block shed speed against one-on-one pass blocks."
• Edge Protector (passing block): "Blockers with this ability reduce an edge pass rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move."
• Secure Protector (pass & run block): "Blockers with this ability reduce a rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move."

This is spot on.  Nice work.

jwasylenko said:

This is spot on.  Nice work.

I agree except for maybe one thing..... With the speed of edge rushers I am not sure that using DBs would get there faster anymore...I believe that for the guys running DB blitzes  is really more about confusing the AI logic of O-lineman....Something about Tank just has not worked for me. He actually has stepped backwards at times almost like he is going into a spy for a sec, then rushes. I will change sides between Milk Man and Tank and see if that makes a difference. I have not tried that yet. Maybe I have just had really bad luck LOL

Martyr1968 said:

I agree except for maybe one thing..... With the speed of edge rushers I am not sure that using DBs would get there faster anymore...I believe that for the guys running DB blitzes  is really more about confusing the AI logic of O-lineman....Something about Tank just has not worked for me. He actually has stepped backwards at times almost like he is going into a spy for a sec, then rushes. I will change sides between Milk Man and Tank and see if that makes a difference. I have not tried that yet. Maybe I have just had really bad luck LOL

I agree, now that there are plenty of DEs and OLBs with mid 90s speed with the ability to be boosted to the high 90s, DBs don't have nearly the speed advantage they did early on. I have always believed the main reason Pros use dollar in this manor is due it confusing the o-line AI logic. I don't know it that's their exact reasoning since I don't talk to any of them outside of Twitch chats or occasional Twitter interactions. However, I have been playing MUT for several years, playing Madden since the early 2000s, watch MUT streamers on Twitch, and watch MCS often and that's the only logical reason for using Dollar IMO.

I haven't used Tank yet, but Milk Man with his x-factor has been one of my more consistent pass rusher/run stopper since he was released. I do move him around often to reduce the resistance built up against him, but he has won battles all over the D-line.

mbacon14 said:

I agree, now that there are plenty of DEs and OLBs with mid 90s speed with the ability to be boosted to the high 90s, DBs don't have nearly the speed advantage they did early on. I have always believed the main reason Pros use dollar in this manor is due it confusing the o-line AI logic. I don't know it that's their exact reasoning since I don't talk to any of them outside of Twitch chats or occasional Twitter interactions. However, I have been playing MUT for several years, playing Madden since the early 2000s, watch MUT streamers on Twitch, and watch MCS often and that's the only logical reason for using Dollar IMO.

I haven't used Tank yet, but Milk Man with his x-factor has been one of my more consistent pass rusher/run stopper since he was released. I do move him around often to reduce the resistance built up against him, but he has won battles all over the D-line.

I may  be able to help with that resistance build up...I am sure you know this, but AKA Mad Maxx getz AKA X Factor Blitz for 1 AP which wipes all on field blockers resistance bars. So you could have him as a backup with the 1 AP on him and sub him in at DT or something for 1 play and it will wipe the resistance bars. I think it is worth the 1 AP personally.

mbacon14 said:

I think you're both correct in a way. EP/SP reduce a rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move, which does negate part of what unstoppable force does. However, neither EP/SP negate win rate, which is boosted for a player with unstoppable force activated. Based on this, my understanding is a defensive player with unstoppable force activated will still win against a blocker with EP/SP, but it won't be the super win (instant shed) that we see when the defender goes against a blocker without EP/SP. It's still up to the individual Madden Player to determine if the AP cost for an instantly activated unstoppable force is worth it for their team/scheme, but I wouldn't say the ability isn't worth it if you have the AP available. Especially if you have the coin/AP availability to use both Tank and Milk Man with their x-factors.

Marty, you made the point about Pro's running base aligned dollar and not utilizing Tank or Milk Man's x-factor for this. I think that's more about the rush angles from blitzing slot CBs being so difficult to block due to horrible offensive linemen blocking AI. Due to that blitz strategy, Pros feel it isn't as necessary to run Tank or Milk Man's x-factor because they can get just as good, if not better, pressure which allows them to spend AP on knockouts, etc.

• Unstoppable Force (Tank/Milk Man): "Elite pass rushers are a mix of strength, speed, and tenacity. When they enter the zone, this ability increases their win rate and block shed speed against one-on-one pass blocks."
• Edge Protector (passing block): "Blockers with this ability reduce an edge pass rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move."
• Secure Protector (pass & run block): "Blockers with this ability reduce a rusher's chances of using a quick block shed move."

Well written and a great explanation!

I tried TOTY Bosa and he did nothing for me as well. Back to Haley, Mario, Milk Man, and Madmaxx for me.

Maybe I’ll just stick with these guys until we get a new Lawrence Taylor🤷‍♂️

mbacon14 said:

I agree, now that there are plenty of DEs and OLBs with mid 90s speed with the ability to be boosted to the high 90s, DBs don't have nearly the speed advantage they did early on. I have always believed the main reason Pros use dollar in this manor is due it confusing the o-line AI logic. I don't know it that's their exact reasoning since I don't talk to any of them outside of Twitch chats or occasional Twitter interactions. However, I have been playing MUT for several years, playing Madden since the early 2000s, watch MUT streamers on Twitch, and watch MCS often and that's the only logical reason for using Dollar IMO.

I haven't used Tank yet, but Milk Man with his x-factor has been one of my more consistent pass rusher/run stopper since he was released. I do move him around often to reduce the resistance built up against him, but he has won battles all over the D-line.

Yeah I don’t necessarily think that faster DE’s are going to get to the QB as fast as a slot blitz because the slot blitz has nobody lined up against them. If the OT commits to the edge rusher there’s nobody in the way of the slot CB. With everyone using EP/SP on their OT’s you will rarely get an insta shed on the edge anymore.

SlowAndSteady said:

I tried TOTY Bosa and he did nothing for me as well. Back to Haley, Mario, Milk Man, and Madmaxx for me.

Maybe I’ll just stick with these guys until we get a new Lawrence Taylor🤷‍♂️

Honestly, I think I will give Tank another shot based on the feedback on this thread. I like Milk man and Tank with 2x unstoppable force but I kinda want to use the Tribute JJ since I got him....But yeah, I have Freeney and he gets around the egde very well....but it has been haley and milk man for me and Maxx subs in for his Aka factor

The only reason I will keep playing Madden after The Show drops is for a new LT :)

Martyr1968 said:

Honestly, I think I will give Tank another shot based on the feedback on this thread. I like Milk man and Tank with 2x unstoppable force but I kinda want to use the Tribute JJ since I got him....But yeah, I have Freeney and he gets around the egde very well....but it has been haley and milk man for me and Maxx subs in for his Aka factor

The only reason I will keep playing Madden after The Show drops is for a new LT :)

Tank didn’t do much when I tried him but my trial was pretty short lived. I honestly forgot about Freeney, didn’t try him yet so maybe I’ll give him a shot over the weekend.

Martyr1968 said:

I may  be able to help with that resistance build up...I am sure you know this, but AKA Mad Maxx getz AKA X Factor Blitz for 1 AP which wipes all on field blockers resistance bars. So you could have him as a backup with the 1 AP on him and sub him in at DT or something for 1 play and it will wipe the resistance bars. I think it is worth the 1 AP personally.

You're absolutely right about Mad Maxx, which is why I just added him the other day when made some lineup adjustments. I haven't had a chance to use him online yet as I was only grinding solos until yesterday to conserve season XP from the comp pass and then completing the TOTY solos yesterday. I'm looking forward to testing him and the rest of the lineup out this weekend.